Interview with families of the Cuban Five
Conducted by Arnold August, Havana, September 19, 2007.

Photo left to right Elisabet Palmeiro,
Mirta Rodriguez, Olga Salanueva
and daughter Ivette Gonzales

Arnold August, Canadian author and lecturer on the theme of democracy and elections in Cuba, was in that country during September. The objective of his visit, in the context of the current 2007/2008 general elections going on in Cuba, consisted of attending nomination zone meetings, and carrying out interviews with voters, members of different levels of the People’s Power as well as Electoral and Candidacy commissions.

He is currently writing another book on the same theme. Extracts of the interview with several families of The Five was scheduled for publication in the forthcoming book to be published towards the end of 2008. However, given the current urgent situation of The Five, he has opted to publicize the entire interview right away. He hopes that this interview contributes both to the struggle to allow all the families of The Five to regularly visit the political prisoners in the United States and to liberate The Five. The following is the full interview:  

Arnold August: Can you please state your names and relationships with the comrades? Let us start with you, please.  

Elisabet Palmeiro: My name is Elizabet Palmeiro, married and the wife of Ramón

Labañino Salazar who is doing a life sentence in the Beaumont, Texas penitentiary. We have 2 children, 15 and 10 years old, and Ramón has another daughter from a previous marriage and who is 19 years old. 

Arnold August:  And yourself please? 

Mirta Rodriguéz: My name is Mirta Rodríguez. I am the mother of Antonio Guerrero.

Antonio is currently in the Florence, Colorado prison serving a life sentence. He has 2 sons coming from two marriages. The oldest is 22 years old and the youngest is 14.  

Arnold August: And so they have been in prison for how many years now? 

Elisabet Palmeiro: Last September 12 they had already served 9 years as prisoners. We are now going through the 10^th year of imprisonment. 

Arnold August: I would now like to know the relationship between on the one hand the families, say you here today, and on the other hand the National Assembly, Cuba’s Parliament. How does this work, being able to at least visit the comrades in the United States? How does this process operate? 

Elisabet Palmeiro: At one point it became known to the Cuban people and to international public opinion that there have been five Cubans held as prisoners in the United States since 1998. From the very first moment that it became public we relied on the unconditional and complete support of the Cuban government which recognized these men as representative of the best values of the Cuban homeland, men who had sacrificed everything in order to go and accomplish the mission having as its goal defending the people against terrorism. This was recognized at the government level, at the state level. The different government institutions in our country of course had made public this support.

First and foremost it was the National Assembly; since its President, Comrade Ricardo Alarcón is the person who is most knowledgeable about this theme, given his knowledge of the United States and his experience as a diplomat; he is a person that is very cultured and well-read. His position as President of the National Assembly helps a lot. He led the decision of the Cuban people to support this cause and to recognize these 5 men as they deserve to be recognized, as Heroes of the Cuban people. As early as 2001, when the issue was made public, in the ordinary session of the National Assembly it was decided to designate The Five as Heroes of the Republic of Cuba.

For us it was a great honour to learn about this news and was in fact a great surprise. Our Commander in Chief was the one who debated in favour of this decision, and so the Parliament issued a Declaration very well documented giving the reasons for this decision, tracing the facts right from the beginning of the incident, including all the struggles and the accusations and the situation of our families in order to make it known to the world the injustice which was being committed against The Five. The National Assembly and its President as well as other main spokespeople have led many important decisions and accusations regarding the situations through which The Five have lived.

For example, when they had been arbitrarily taken to the hole in 2003, our National Assembly led the campaign, sending protest letters and demanding that the US government change its decision. The Parliament also requested that other friendly parliamentarians in the world adhere to the just Cuban demand that is to request a change in the situation for our imprisoned family members who had been arbitrarily taken to the hole just before the beginning of the war against Iraq. In all aspects, the National Assembly always showed its support regarding the situation of  The Five; demanding an end to the unjust imprisonment, and at each watershed in this struggle it has done so; each one of the Parliament’s Permanent Commissions as colleagues of  these Deputy’s peers in other parliament’s do the same work. This is so because it is a responsibility of the Cuban people itself, that is to deal with the injustice which is being carried out against these family members, it is a duty which each Cuban has taken up, that is to succeed in putting an end to this unjust situation.

The National Assembly is constituted of people coming from amongst ordinary Cubans, Cubans who can be my neighbour. For example, just yesterday I participated in the nomination meeting to propose candidates to run for elections as delegates from the riding in which I live to the Municipal Assembly. Just yesterday I have had the living experience at the nomination meeting. A voter proposed one comrade, while another citizen proposed the outgoing candidate. Yesterday we decided by a vote to nominate the same delegate as we currently have, for this person has showed himself to be very good, he has carried out good work, and all the neighbours, the majority that is, proposed him once again. The National Assembly is composed of persons such as this one who could have been elected in the neighbourhood....        

Arnold August:  Up to 50% of the Deputies? 

Elisabet Palmeiro: Right. We can count on the predisposition of the Parliament to support the cause of The Five and put an end to the injustice; in this body we have all the support, and because of this we the families feel fully backed in all aspects. If it was not for our government which covers all our expenses to be able to go to the United States, we could not go to see them over there in those prisons where they are isolated from our country. Our Embassies throughout the world support the cause of The Five, calling for international solidarity, for this is a political case. As is the case for all political issues, it is necessary to win over world public opinion. Well-intentioned and justice-loving people must be are aware of what is happening.

We have absolutely no complaint. On the contrary, we owe our greatest appreciation for the support which we have always enjoyed from the Cuban authorities, who are always aware of what is happening to The Five as persons, their physical/emotional state of being. The Cuban authorities also know in detail what is being done all over the world, to publicize what is being done in order to put an end as soon as possible to this intolerable situation which our families are currently undergoing, arising from these unjust condemnations because they are real anti-terrorist fighters and the world does not yet know this. The world will become aware of their situation, why they are prisoners, that they are imprisoned for having fought within the United States itself against terrorism.        

Arnold August: This is changing, more and more people are becoming aware, the support is growing thanks to the work of the Free the Five Committees and solidarity with Cuba organizations especially in the United States and in other parts of the world such as in Canada. 

Elisabet Palmeiro: We are currently in the midst of an international campaign. Last year an important one took place; the first international day was carried out. A call was issued for simultaneous efforts in many parts of the world. In this phase between September 12 and October 8 of this year, all those people who have joined the cause of The Five would  coincide all their actions, and in this way draw attention of the US authorities in all these countries, so that the injustice and double standard of the US is becoming increasingly known; that while they say that the fight terrorism, they keep these 5 anti-terrorist Cubans prisoners in their penitentiaries, depriving them of their freedom which is the most important right that a person can have, and furthermore they are submitted to unnecessary tortures such as the right to disclaim charges, the right to be visited by their families. We are confronted with obstacles to visit them. But in the case of two of them, they are suffering from the total prohibition to receive visits from their wives.      

Arnold August: Are you a voter in the Plaza de la Revolución Municipality? 

 Elisabet Palmeiro: Yes, Plaza de la Revolución 

Arnold August: In which riding? 

Elisabet Palmeiro: In a Carmelo Zone riding. 

Arnold August: Yesterday evening I was in that Zone, but in another riding attending a nomination meeting. I would like to know the thoughts going through your mind yesterday when you participated in the neighbourhood nomination meeting; last night you were able to be present with your neighbours, but your husband is in the United States, a prisoner. 

Elisabet Palmeiro: For us Cubans it is perfectly normal to have this kind of event every 2 and a- half years. For us it is a happening to participate in such a meeting. The goal is to choose a person who is to lead the community in solving its problems in accordance with the person’s merits and work. Those elected can even arrive to be representatives in the National Assembly, as you mentioned, up to 50% of the National Assembly Deputies are also Municipal Assembly delegates. For this reason, everyone strives to elect the one who has most talent and capacity for it is quite possible that this person will rise to represent at the highest level. It is an honour to have as a parliamentary Deputy a person who is a neighbourhood delegate, for this person is close to the problems of the community. Being elected does not accompany any economic advantages or any similar type of reward. Their interest is to solve daily problems and lead the people in daily situations that we encounter in the neighbourhood in which we live.

 I myself who was born with the Revolution, I have not seen another form of elections. I know that there exist other types of elections because I see them on television, for example, on the news broadcasts. I see how these elections operate in some other countries. In these countries what counts is the amount of money which comes into play in order to do election propaganda. I am also aware of Cuban history, how elections were carried out before the revolution, lots of demagogical campaigns; we really now have a privileged position centered on our thinking that we do not have to give a cent in order to feel that we are represented. Even though we call our system a participatory democracy, and not a representative one, we feel that we are represented by these people who defend our interests in the neighbourhood where people can go and criticize something with the goal of attempting to solve a problem.

The Deputies which meet in the National Assembly take decisions on the future of the Cuban nation. It approves laws, makes changes and adjustments in Cuban society according to the circumstances in which we are living. The theme of The Five is present from the very first day that there situation was made public. We repeat what we told you earlier, that from the very beginning when their situation was made public in Cuba and the world, the National Assembly has been present. Its President is the one who heads all of this. Yesterday in the nomination meeting, those who were there for example myself who saw how one is nominated and who can come to be elected once again, I do not believe that that there is another person in the riding who can do better than the outgoing delegate since he already has the endorsement coming from having worked already as a delegate.

People spoke very favourably of him. The same policy with regards to the theme of our families will carry on. There will be no change since the majority of the Cuban people who defend this system of elections are likewise those who defend the position of The Five and the need to have people like The Five; thus I am not worried at all, nothing will happen here that will change my future since the men and women who are elected are part of the Cuban people who support our situation, will maintain the same stance, will defend the same policy of support, that is to denounce to the whole world what is happening to our families. They recognize the merit of The Five and even the sacrifice of their lives in circumstances where it is necessary.     

Arnold August: In relationship to nomination meetings such as the one which took place last night, when you voted in the last 2005 partial elections, was there any discussion with the neighbours on the issue of The Five? I read a few times in Granma that interviewed a voter who was quoted as saying that “I am going to vote for several reasons but also thinking about The Five.” 

Mirta Rodríguez: In general, every time there are elections, on each occasion when an important activity is called we vote in a symbolic way for The Five. In the electoral colleges’ voting lists a family member’s name is missing, but he is present with all of us, all of us who have the right to vote. Our television also approaches us with the same question, our thinking for example “today when you go to vote”, for example the television interviews and asks “what has Antonio told you?” Well, Antonio is to be found in my voice in my feelings. Antonio is here today with me in this riding. Yes, he is here. He is here in each and every one of the voters I would say, The Five are all present.

The struggle of our people is very strong. It is the impelling force of the international solidarity struggle and of this cause. And for all these reasons our people is very conscious of the injustice, is very well informed about the entire procedure and what has happened and how it is coming along, that is, our people are not at all ignorant about the situation. For us, the families represent a support for our people as well. Our sons are today are aware of the full electoral situation and us, our family is also privileged because one of the mothers is a Deputy in the National Assembly [Irma Sehweret, Deputy from a Municipality in Ciuadad de la Habana] and we hope that she will be re-elected.    

Arnold August: When was she elected? I believe it was in the last general elections held in 2002-2003, is that right?  

Mirta Rodríguez: Yes. 

Arnold August: Can you please deal with the issues of the visas for the families to visit The Five? 

Mirta Rodríguez: When they are about to give us a visa, it is done on a personal level. Well, fortunately, with the exception of Olga and Adriana, the others we have been able to get visas once a year. From time to time the waiting period is longer, for example in my case I had to wait 15 months for the visa being granted. However, in general is it once a year, never more than once a year. The problem arises when we arrive at the border, these problems always repeat themselves. We can never go through the same route, as the others can take.

Being Cubans, they take us elsewhere towards immigration in order to put us through a series of questions which are not easy to answer. It is the same as they ask us here [US Interests Section in Havana], but once we are abroad this becomes a real problem, because at times it results in a delay of two or three hours because of the way they deal with us. All of this has as a consequence a great stress with which we are confronted, because we have to catching the connecting flight. But other than that, we have not had any major difficulties. The prisons have their rules and regulations for visits. From time to time with regards to visits they have caused major difficulties for us. These incidents occur because this is a political situation; our sons are political prisoners.

I would like to tell you something that caught my attention. This electoral system is so democratic, because the people are present and you yourself have seen it and been able to verify. It is so noble, so generous, however very few people outside of Cuba can understand it. 

Arnold August: First thing, comrade, according to Washington there are no elections in Cuba. 

Mirta Rodríguez: Exactly. 

Arnold August: And so my main mission is to convey the message that yes, there are elections in Cuba. I wrote about this before and will do so once again, explaining in detail how the electoral system functions. However, this time it will be even more profound, for example developing the point how your participatory democracy functions throughout the year. The objective is to allow the world public opinion to be aware how the political system operates from a point of view and the direct experience of someone who is not a Cuban. The goal is therefore to describe everything and thus to oppose all the yanqui propaganda against Cuba’s democracy and its political system.

For them the issue of “democracy and elections” serves only as a pretext for them and is manipulated to fight against Cuba. For example, the United States has really good relations with other countries which have no political parties and where there are no elections, and are even in some cases are monarchies! However, relations with these countries are really smooth because they are military and economic allies of the US. Therefore, this issue of the American interpretation of “democracy and elections” is an excuse. And so my goal in life is to combat this misinformation, especially regarding this theme emanating from the White House against Cuba. For this reason I have taken time to be with you, to find out about your experience. Whenever I do my work, for example carrying out interviews or lectures as an author on this theme, whenever it is possible I make sure to add information about The Five.

Well, let us continue.    

Olga Salanueva: My name is Olga Salanueva, wife of René González. The Five have grown up under the new electoral system; the oldest of them is René who was born in 1956. Well, when People’s Power came into being, he was only a grown kid and all the rest of us, the younger generation including three of his children, Irmita, Tonito and the eldest daughter of Ramón are all adults who have the right to vote. 

Arnold August: This right starting from 16 years of age. 

Olga Salanueva: Yes, they all are at least 16 years old. And then there are others who are younger. We are all part of the Cuban population which has been formed, shaped and grown up in this Revolution and we are part of the electoral system. They have already spoken very well to you about this. Irma was voted in as a Deputy in the previous general elections and will probably be voted in again during the current general elections. In our neighbourhoods we live this as a daily activity, something very normal, that is to select amongst our neighbours, those who are most capable, most revolutionary and above all able to carry with them the ability to be sensitive about the other neighbours, that is all those who are part of the population.

Because we spring from the riding, building on this we arrive at the national level. And it is we ourselves who are going to be on the watch in order to see which person is most appropriate irrespective of the person’s profession or work. The person can be the most humble worker because I know that there are different categories in the Parliament, there are also householders as Deputies. For example Irma is a Deputy and a retired householder. There are also scientists, there is a full representation of all our people and in part they come from the base, from the neighbourhoods, from the street blocks, those who we know as a good neighbour and who are in addition good revolutionaries, people able to be sensitive, people with sentiment who are able to  take the pulse of the people’s daily life experience, able to improve this capacity to perceive, can live this cohabitation, know how to work things out so that all that we have can be of benefit to all, from our work and the fruit of our labour.

This is the way we are going to live it as a normal event and that, well, when the elections are held, we look for the best candidate; this is carried out by voting, all have this right, it is a right and no one is going to know for whom you have voted, you have all the right to vote or not to vote. From there the system goes from the bottom up to the National Assembly of People’s Power which is the power of all our people.

Since I was practically a young girl, I saw the shaping of People’s Power in Cuba and I do not think that that it is perfect, but it is the best which exists in the world at this time. I think, I see that is it not flawless since of course we are always going to improve and always going to attempt our best and strive so that all the avenues and all the channels are open to make sure the Deputy has all the information and feels the pulse of the population in order to discuss and adopt laws, in order to state what is necessary to do in any given moment. This is how I see it. This is how they [The Five] see it as well.

Each one of them has also had the experience to live there, in the entrails of the monster, in the country of the so-called great democracy, but they know how false this democracy is in the United States and how there is a complicity between the government and the mafia and especially in the terrorist plans against our people and which originate in that country, and where there exists a mafia, a very well organized mafia because it is part of the power. It is found amongst mayors, in the Congress, and it has been confirmed internationally that they have Nazi sentiments, no?    

Arnold August: Yes, in the Quebec Social Forum which took place in Montreal at the beginning of September, there was a workshop organized by the Table de Concertation de Solidarité Québec-Cuba. In this workshop, amongst others, a person who spoke was the Canadian lawyer William Sloan whom you surely know. He was in Atlanta with other invited personalities and juridical specialists. He described in detail the entire history of The Five, including the fascist conditions of imprisonment reserved for these political prisoners. Taking this into account and that on the other hand the United States protects terrorists such as Posada, as well as looking at the war against Iraq, the situation in Guantánamo and other US plans of aggression against other countries, the conclusion is that yes, Bush is a Nazi, a fascist, true.    

Olga Salanueva: In conclusion, it is us which have to teach them what democracy means, what people’s power means and what it means for such power to truly be in the people’s hands. We do not need them to give us conferences, to write false books; on the contrary, from here we have to render our own experience and we would also like very much that the American people would know us more closely, because they have a blindfold covering their eyes; we do not blame them, they are victims of the big-time propaganda against our country. For this reason we believe that books such as the one you wrote and are now working to update are very important, would help us a lot, would help us Cubans a lot and other peoples as well, including those in the United States.       

Arnold August: I would like to know that when you voted in 2005, during the last partial elections, while your husband is a political prisoner, what were your sentiments, what were your thoughts?  

Olga Salanueva: Every time one goes to vote, and one enters the Electoral College, sees the voters’ list, deposits the ballot, notices the Pioneers watching over the ballot boxes, without any doubt the thinking is with them, No? Well, always thinking of them, if they were here, they would be happy to be able to exercise his right to vote as Cubans which they are. However, at the same time, they are very happy in their thinking, of course over there one cannot be happy within a prison; nevertheless their thinking is filled with content knowing that all the sacrifice that they  have carried out was done so that the essence of our Revolution continues and it is precisely this, the of our people’s power.

I believe that that day of voting, as in the current general elections, they must feel happy, happy despite all the suffering from all these years in prison, despite the intention of the US government to maintain them for life over there, as is the case of three of them. This is so because they are there really for having wanted to prevent attacks against our people as well as to allow the rights of our people to flourish, rights won at the cost of so much blood being spilled, so much pain and suffering. We are happy in the Triumph of our Revolution which has been proceeding step by step towards the best society which is possible at this time, socialism, that this carries on. Well, The Five should be very proud, very honoured by all that our people recognize in them and very pleased that People’s Power exists in Cuba.         

 Arnold August: Thank you all very much.